Curse

Bryant Again · Jun 18, 2009, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Yes, you can say Heroes saved this game!

You can say a lot of things. You can say heroes saved the day, or you can say they ruined it. People here have as much proof that heroes are the bane of social play as do those saying that the pugs themselves - and the general set-up of GW - have destroyed it.

But the problem with all this (and no, this isn't just directed towards you. It's directed towards everyone currently heatedly arguing about it) is that this is all we know: Nightfall was released, Heroes were released, there are less people in outposts.

And that's about it. No one has more "evidence" than the other. Nothing is definite until we get into the minds of those millions of players mixed amongst those 6 million copies. Until then, anything is at fault.

Meanwhile, Zinger watches at the sidelines, smiling to himself, devilishly delighted that he's still got it >: )

Khyr Lord of Kaoz · Jun 18, 2009, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

If that's the case, then what's the problem?

If you've been playing "from the beginning" as some of the anti-hero people are claiming here, and you still haven't been able to get into a subcommunity that allows you to play multiplayer consistently, I don't think heroes are the problem. Four years is a long time to not make connections.

I have lots of connections and STILL preferring only playing with one person, who happens to be my wife. We have a great time. We don't NEED to go hunting for other people. What you're saying here, is that if a person wants a more intimate experience, with just a friend or two, they're somehow not as good as you, because of all your contacts.

Quality is often better than quantity. And control over six heroes by two people, to me IS the ideal team, because we have played so much together, we barely have to think to work as a team. This is a very enjoyable way to play, even though I have friends I play with as well, when they need help.

Daesu · Jun 18, 2009, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

this is all we know: Nightfall was released, Heroes were released, there are less people in outposts.

All I know is Factions was released, and there were already less people in outposts, especially those in prophecies. Maybe it was the spreading out of people or maybe people just hate the grind that Factions introduced (lots of heated threads on that one then but now people just take grinding for granted, far have we come..) so they quit. Or maybe it was a combination of these and other factors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

I have lots of connections and STILL preferring only playing with one person, who happens to be my wife. We have a great time.

I made the point that people prefer to team up with people they know for a more enjoyable and reliable gaming experience. Features like Guilds, Alliances, Friends list, other than heroes, also makes random pugging less necessary.

Random pugging is not as important as some of you seem to think. To me random pugging is just an evolutionary step towards making friends and eventually maybe even joining their guilds or they joining yours. When that happens, the need to random pug goes down.

Guilds/alliances and finding a good reliable gaming buddy should be the eventual goal that random pugging, gaming forums, and other networking serve and heroes fill up the gaps between you and your buddy without the need to risk a random pug stranger destroying your gaming experience. So I dont care if fewer people pug nowadays compared to a few years ago. That could even be a good sign that more people have found friends, that they know, to play with.

Looking at the problem of "not finding human players to party with", the solution shouldn't be more forced random pugging by nerfing heroes. The solution should be making friends online, all most people need is to find 1 or 2 good reliable gaming buddy. If you are already posting in this forum, there can be no excuse to say you dont have an opportunity to make friends online.

Gli · Jun 18, 2009, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

What you're saying here, is that if a person wants a more intimate experience, with just a friend or two, they're somehow not as good as you, because of all your contacts.

I'm not saying that at all. In fact, I have exactly 2 people in my friend's list. (But a guild with almost 20 RL friends though.) What I was saying is, that people who have been playing for 4 years actually looking for a multiplayer experience and can't find it, are doing something wrong and shouldn't be blaming heroes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

Quality is often better than quantity. And control over six heroes by two people, to me IS the ideal team, because we have played so much together, we barely have to think to work as a team. This is a very enjoyable way to play, even though I have friends I play with as well, when they need help.

No argument here.

Sjeng · Jun 18, 2009, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Without heroes, the game would have been dead.
People have spread out a whole lot when new chapters came out, concentrating in the new parts for a while, then disappearing again. Now there are only several hotspots left in the game, and all smaller outposts are permanently empty. If not for heroes, people would have quit. Henchmen alone just don't cut it.
Z-quests are a nice boost, but these also only create very short term hotspots. But it helps.
My 2ct.

It's good GW2 will be a persistent world. you'll meet more people.

Ghost Omel · Jun 18, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Yesh..heroes saved da day......

The above posts about connections... ummm is this a bussiness world? or is it a dating website.. or school.. since when socializing was a MAJOR point in playing games even those online?.. If anything it was to pitch people against each other PvP much.. its just happened that in GW in order to enjoy this PvP in most modes you gota bear playing with others....Heroes were a nice answer to those people who prefer to pay the game their way.. and heroes let them do it.. without all the *itching and moaning from constant "this build is crap? WTF get out of ehre mesmer!...Yeah dont run this SF is the way to go!"... Heroes dont talk back..they just folow orders....

So Sociealizing fals second if not third in gaming..

Its Win, Evolve. Socialize....

zwei2stein · Jun 18, 2009, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Meanwhile, Zinger watches at the sidelines, smiling to himself, devilishly delighted that he's still got it >: )

Still got it? Nah, he is continuously refining and improving his special skill. This is Zinger at his best!

Zinger314 · Jun 18, 2009, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Still got it? Nah, he is continuously refining and improving his special skill. This is Zinger at his best!

Plus I have Amnesia, which increases my Special up by two levels!

Menlai Littiz · Jun 18, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Imo never gonna happen but............... Remove all heroes and henchies and force people to play together........ playing with people is so much fun and makes people better faster !!!!!!!!

Ghost Omel · Jun 18, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menlai Littiz

Imo never gonna happen but............... Remove all heroes and henchies and force people to play together........ playing with people is so much fun and makes people better faster !!!!!!!!

... The only problem is that those players that dont knmow how to play will be interfiering with esperienced players that want to achieve a GOAL and not teach new commers how to play their given proffesions...thats what RA AB is for -_-

Not saing no grouping with them at all but it will be rather annoying and result in more hate towards new guys that it will backfire even more then it has already done -_-

Daesu · Jun 18, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menlai Littiz

Imo never gonna happen but............... Remove all heroes and henchies and force people to play together........ playing with people is so much fun and makes people better faster !!!!!!!!

Define which people? Random strangers or friends?

If you remove all heroes and henchies, that guy who plays with his wife would have to find other friends to fill up a team or forced to invite random strangers into their team. Somehow I dont think that would give a better gaming experience for him, his wife, or anybody in general.

The problem with this forum is, there are alot of "personal agenda suggestions". If I am not sociable enough to befriend people online, I want ANet to change the entire game mechanics to force people to party me everytime.

DreamWind · Jun 18, 2009, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

It's called "making new friends", try it sometimes.

I think you missed the point completely (again). All my friends agreed with me that Guild Wars going solo was bad. We all play different games now, with me posting here to reminsce on the past mostly. I also quit due to all the changes made to the game over time. Heroes were just one bad change out of many..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

This is absurd. Were you their only source of multiplayer bliss?

If not, what was their reasoning? "Oh no! Some people aren't playing with other people! And despite me being able to play multiplayer with DreamWind and plenty of other people, I'm going to quit because this game is becoming a singleplayer game with heroes!"

I think you also missed the point. Heroes promote a singleplayer game. That is...the community in essense died overnight when heroes were released. The majority of the community now is soloers...I can't prove that but I can make a very good educated guess at it. The population of the game died overnight, because when you play solo you are effectively not part of the original Guild Wars community or concept anymore. In PvP this is the biggest problem of all. Heroes caused a huge drop in population...so now there is less people to team with and even less people to play against.

All in all I'm saying the game changed for the worse. I'm not saying heroes caused all the problems, but I am saying they were a problem that caused some of the problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

The problem with this forum is, there are alot of "personal agenda suggestions". If I am not sociable enough to befriend people online, I want ANet to change the entire game mechanics to force people to party me everytime.

LoL. You got it all wrong brother. The original game had no heroes. If anything heroes were invented for those exact people you specify. Anet changed the entire game mechanics for people who were not sociable enough for the original concept of the game, even though the original concept of the game is what made Guild Wars unique and separated it from the pack. Now Guild Wars is simply mediocre in the eyes of many. Anet changed their game and people who don't like the changes left. Its as simple as that.

Bryant Again · Jun 18, 2009, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

*snip* I can't prove that but I can make a very good educated guess at it.

Based on what?

Daesu · Jun 18, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

LoL. You got it all wrong brother. The original game had no heroes. If anything heroes were invented for those exact people you specify. Anet changed the entire game mechanics for people who were not sociable enough for the original concept of the game, even though the original concept of the game is what made Guild Wars unique and separated it from the pack. Now Guild Wars is simply mediocre in the eyes of many. Anet changed their game and people who don't like the changes left. Its as simple as that.

Actually you got that reversed. There is really not much socializing going on in most PUGs. Most people were just interested in completing the mission/bonus. Nobody ever asked how was your day, what your likes/dislikes are, what is your favorite color, nobody seems to be interested in anything about you except how you would help them accomplish the mission. People that make up most PUGs dont strike me to be sociable at all.

The real socializing comes when you are playing with your friends. And when you are playing with your friends, it is usually a closed group with heroes/henchies to make up a full team because you may be talking about private issues that only you and your buddy knows about.

People who play with random PUGs are not necessarily sociable because most of them dont bother to get to know the other players in their team. People who bothered to make friends and play with them (buffered with heroes/henchies) are the real sociable players.

pinguinius · Jun 18, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Everyone that would rather play with heroes is bad and killed the game because they are not playing the way I want them to.

Shortened that there for you.

Ghost Omel · Jun 18, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinguinius

Shortened that there for you.

Il just agree with what this person said..sums it pretty much.. Once again this all matte rof opinions .. An dopinions are like Intestines...every body has em..
Its ust the matter of EGO that makes them either bigger or smaller.. sometimes they are so big they shut the brain down and thats when you become. ALL POWERFULL and ALL KNOWING being....in your own little world... Anyway i say heroes added more ways to play the game.. Not killed,Not fixed. just another option in an option list

DreamWind · Jun 18, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Based on what?

Not this again.

Based on a lot of non-scientific evidence that is all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

People who play with random PUGs are not necessarily sociable because most of them dont bother to get to know the other players in their team. People who bothered to make friends and play with them (buffered with heroes/henchies) are the real sociable players.

That depends on your definition of sociable. Either way I'd rather be playing with 7 people rather than 2 people and 5 AI (and in the case of PvP 3 people and 4 AI vs 3 people and 4 AI). Its just the way the game was meant to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinguinius

Everyone that would rather play with heroes is bad and killed the game because they are not playing the way I want them to.

Shortened that there for you.

Awful point. You can say that about anything in the game even if it is bad for the game. We had many people saying Ursan and Soul Reaping should stay because "OMGZ IT WOULD REMOVE MY OPTIONZ AND U JUST WANTZ ME TO PLAY YOUR WAY". Get a new argument and get back to me.

Daesu · Jun 18, 2009, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Either way I'd rather be playing with 7 people rather than 2 people and 5 AI (and in the case of PvP 3 people and 4 AI vs 3 people and 4 AI). Its just the way the game was meant to be.

That is YOU. Everybody has a choice whether to play with heroes or play with someone else. If the person didn't want to play with you and would rather play with heroes what gives you the right to forcibly remove his choice of playing with heroes over yours? I just seems so childish that you would even consider forcing people to play with you when they dont want to.

I mean would you hold a girl at gun point and force her to marry you next time?

I still recommend that you learn to befriend others so that they would feel better about partying with you, rather than asking ANet to FORCE them.

pinguinius · Jun 18, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Awful point. You can say that about anything in the game even if it is bad for the game. We had many people saying Ursan and Soul Reaping should stay because "OMGZ IT WOULD REMOVE MY OPTIONZ AND U JUST WANTZ ME TO PLAY YOUR WAY". Get a new argument and get back to me.

It wasn't an argument for or against heroes, learn to read. I was just pointing out that you are whining because things aren't the way you would personally like them. Which, by the way, you totally are.

Stokely · Jun 18, 2009, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I don't think heroes killed the game, but for me at least, it made the game less fun. I played back when prophecies was the only game and quit before factions came out, and just started playing again a few months ago. There is a lot more to do in the game now, sure, but in my opinion, the game was more fun back then. You could easily find a human group for anything. Who cares if someone in your group made you fail, at least you weren't spending all of your GW time with yourself. I also think that heroes should be removed from all PvP (except HB of course)